Chat #16 - C.B. Lee
"I think connection is superhuman"
C.B. Lee is a New York Times bestselling author of young adult and middle grade fiction, including Coffeeshop in an Alternate Universe, A Clash of Steel, and the acclaimed Sidekick Squad series. Their work have received seven starred reviews and have been finalists for multiple awards, including the Lambda Literary Award and the Rainbow Award. Lee’s work has been featured in NPR, Teen Vogue, Wired Magazine, Hypable, Tor’s Best of Fantasy and Sci Fi and the American Library Association’s Rainbow List. Born in Los Angeles to Chinese and Vietnamese refugees, Lee has cultivated a passion for storytelling from a young age. They live in Los Angeles today and strive to eat as many bao as possible.
https://cb-lee.com
instagram.com/cblee_cblee
19/11/2025, 20:01 - Finbarre:
CB Lee, it is a delight to have you on Tarot DMs. Thank you so much for joining me. I was speaking to my wife about who your favourite superhero might be. Now, we think it’s going to be an X-Person. Is it? Are we right?
19/11/2025, 20:03 - C.B. Lee:
I would have to say if you had asked me 10 years ago, my favorite superhero would have been Jubilee or Kitty Pride. Really a big fan of X-Men in general!
Although, you know, in the last 10 years, I’ve also gotten really into Marvel.
My current favorite superheroes would be Gwen Stacy and Miles Morales.
19/11/2025, 20:04 - Finbarre:
Her dress sense IS supreme quite frankly
19/11/2025, 20:04 - C.B. Lee:
So 90s, so cool.
19/11/2025, 20:05 - Finbarre:
Apologies, I was just reading Not Your Sidekick and I had to jump in with a superhero related question. How is your day going? Tell me, what wonderful things have happened recently? I’d love to know.
19/11/2025, 20:06 - C.B. Lee:
Thank you. Just put the dogs in their Christmas sweaters. I know that it’s only mid-November, but I think as soon as Halloween is over, we pretty much get started. We do have like still a lot of like autumnal decorations, but we’ve also started our Christmas excitement.
19/11/2025, 20:06 - C.B. Lee:
19/11/2025, 20:06 - C.B. Lee: looking for a picture in their Christmas sweaters lol
19/11/2025, 20:06 - Finbarre: Look at those two superstars! What are their names?
19/11/2025, 20:07 - C.B. Lee:
19/11/2025, 20:07 - C.B. Lee: This is Sherlock
19/11/2025, 20:07 - C.B. Lee:
19/11/2025, 20:07 - C.B. Lee: this is Bao
19/11/2025, 20:07 - Finbarre: Sans deerstalker, pipe and scads of opium
19/11/2025, 20:08 - C.B. Lee: 😂😂😂
19/11/2025, 20:08 - Finbarre: Bao? As in the bun??
19/11/2025, 20:08 - C.B. Lee: yes!!
19/11/2025, 20:08 - C.B. Lee:
19/11/2025, 20:09 - C.B. Lee:
19/11/2025, 20:09 - C.B. Lee: i cannot find a good picture in the sweaters so we’ll have to move on haha
19/11/2025, 20:10 - Finbarre:
Just half an hour ago, my wife had prepared this giant tray of autumnal lasagna. You know, when it’s been oven-baked, so it’s got that browned top, and this vegan delight was eaten by the whole family.
I’m probably half lasagna myself now, and I’m looking at those pictures, and I’m still just a little bit hungry. Is that a particular drink that you would have with those bao buns? Is it something like some kind of rice wine or...
19/11/2025, 20:11 - C.B. Lee: Probably just tea I think. On a hot day I love a good iced milk tea with boba!
19/11/2025, 20:12 - C.B. Lee: That lasagne sounds absolutely amazing, was it pumpkin? What was it that make it autumnal?
19/11/2025, 20:14 - Finbarre: The sheer tongue scorching levels of paprika! My wife’s family originate from Hungary and their love of that spice comes into all of their hearty dishes. I probably have flushed cheeks now though.
19/11/2025, 20:15 - Finbarre:
We should probably start moving on before my stomach starts audibly rumbling on the microphone. I’ve got your first card, and it is The Moon.
This is the same card that everyone gets this month - and it’s a mysterious, quite psychedelic card, this particular one.
19/11/2025, 20:15 - Finbarre:
19/11/2025, 20:16 - C.B. Lee:
19/11/2025, 20:16 - C.B. Lee:
It has been a long while since I’ve had cards drawn, but I have seen this card before, just not in a while. I think my last reading, I pulled The Fool and several others, but I don’t remember. I think it was overall an interesting conversation.
But no, I can’t remember having pulled this one in recent years.
19/11/2025, 20:16 - Finbarre:
Just as a quick reminder, this one is a card that signals a time of uncertainty, where not everything is as it seems. More than meets the eye, as the Transformers would say.
So your intuition is in a heightened state. Also, that risk of misinterpretation is as well. It’s a time of dreams and distortion.
19/11/2025, 20:20 - C.B. Lee:
I’m currently working on another book. So I think the moon really works well pointing to that stage of the unknown, the uncertainty, dreams, just because it’s really fun being in this space where I’m still dreaming up the story and it can kind of go any which way at this point. It’s not like a solid thing yet, like not a draft where I’m working with something already I made, I’m editing it.
But the creation of something new is really a great part of the process.
19/11/2025, 20:24 - Finbarre:
My first tarot question for you is, do you ever leave things unresolved in your stories?
And if you do, could you give me an example?
19/11/2025, 20:26 - C.B. Lee:
So first, yes. And if I’m doing a series, absolutely. For example, the Sidekick Squad, you know, the overarching plot, like what’s going to happen with the Resistance and the League of Heroes… League of Heroes is not resolved by the end of books one, two or three. They come across new problems and hope to solve them. So yeah, in this series, there’s definitely things that are open and yet to be closed still.
19/11/2025, 20:26 - C.B. Lee:
And I think most of my other books, I feel like I always like to invite the reader to imagine and then fun doing it. I do want to have the story be satisfying and fun read so the main conflict will be resolved.
But I like to leave a few questions like what’s going to happen next with the characters and leave things on a hopeful note for people to imagine the future and what might that future bring for those characters, but still know that they’re safe and happy at the end of the story and the particulars of what happens next. You’re free to imagine that.
19/11/2025, 20:28 - C.B. Lee:
I think the biggest question mark probably is in Clash of Steel. I don’t know if there’s a way you can indicate to your readers about spoilers, but I kind of leave it up to you because you don’t know what happens to the pirate queen. Is she dead? Is she alive? Did she succumb to her greed? What happens in that cave? So we don’t know the 100% truth of what happens because Xiang and Ahn, the main characters, don’t know. And they’re, they and the book, going off on their own adventure, but we know that they’re together and they’re happy. But I wanted to leave it open just in case, you know, I wanted to come back for a sequel.
19/11/2025, 20:30 - C.B. Lee:
19/11/2025, 20:30 - Finbarre:
I really appreciate that you prize not necessarily a happy ending, but a positive one. Because my two kids will, probably the mark of a terrible parent, will spend a good part of the night in bed with books, just reading and reading until they fall asleep.
Initially, I thought I should probably go in and stop them and say, you know what time it is, etc. But I would rather they fill their boots with the written word. You know, they see so many screens during the day. And it is just that time of reflection and contemplation. But also, if they’re in a happy world, if they’re in safe hands, that’s brilliant. So I’m so glad you said that.
19/11/2025, 20:32 - C.B. Lee:
Thank you. Yeah. It’s been interesting, I think, seeing my kid who’s four now reading and really enjoying stories. And I try to encourage it as much as possible. But, you know, definitely in the parenting side, like, hmm, this is bedtime. Do you really need another story? But like, you know, that’s the balance, right? Like, okay, bedtime versus, oh, you’re having so much fun reading these books.
19/11/2025, 20:36 - Finbarre:
19/11/2025, 20:34 - Finbarre:
Okay we are now on card two this is the wild card and in my hands I’m holding the Hexen 5.0 tarot by Suzanne Treister and these are huge. These are like the size of a VHS cassette. Depending on how old you are you may possibly remember them in your distant memory, so yes the deck is enormous! and What I’m going to do is do my best to shuffle these, you cannot riffle shuffle them. You can, I don’t know, it’s a bit like throwing books around. I’ll do my best!
When you type stop or say stop I’ll produce one card and think of a question
19/11/2025, 20:37 - C.B. Lee:
19/11/2025, 20:37 - C.B. Lee: ok stop!
19/11/2025, 20:37 - Finbarre: OH MY GOD ARE YOU SURE?
19/11/2025, 20:37 - Finbarre: I kid, I kid. One moment...
19/11/2025, 20:38 - Finbarre:
19/11/2025, 20:39 - Finbarre:
So the Two of Chalices here, normally represented by the Two of Cups, is that meeting of hearts. It’s a card where mutual attraction or emotional connection brings that almost sacred moment where two people recognise something profound in the other.
19/11/2025, 20:40 - C.B. Lee:
That’s great. There’s always an element of romance in my stories. So I love recognizing a kindred heart… is important in all my work. I think it’s really wonderful. I think even works that I don’t write arcs that aren’t particularly romantic. I think connection is superhuman and just building connection and community.
19/11/2025, 20:42 - Finbarre:
Here’s your question from the Two of Cups. From what I can gather in your stories, queer love is portrayed with tenderness and complexity. What do you think is essential when representing queer connections on a page?
19/11/2025, 20:44 - C.B. Lee: I think if you had asked me this in 2015 when i first started writing, i would have said it was very important to show queer characters existing and having fun and getting to have romances
19/11/2025, 20:46 - C.B. Lee:
I think where things have shifted a bit is that the pressure, you know, 10 years ago, especially in TV, not necessarily in literature, although I think people were looking at literature in a particular way, is that there is this need for characters to be pretty perfect.
If you wrote someone as evil or mean, or this person cheated on that person, or they’re messy, or, you know, have flaws, or are full of flaws, it felt like because there were so few queer characters in media that, like, if you created someone, a character that wasn’t quite perfect, it was a blow, right, to the queer community. That it was bad representation if this person was terrible.
At the time, I wrote characters that were very, like, I was writing to what I wanted to see. You know, in the Sidekick Squad, they’re teenagers. They’re very good to each other. You know, they make mistakes. They try their best. But overall, it’s a very, like, straightforward, I mean, not straight, but, like, direct relationship.
They have, like, great relationships with their parents who are all super supportive because I wanted that. I wanted people to live in a world where everything was wonderful, you know, aside from the superhero conspiracy in that world.
19/11/2025, 20:48 - C.B. Lee:
I think today I would love to see more characters get to be messy or evil or vindictive or terrible or cheating or whatever they are in all their flaws, right?
Like I want to see people have the range of emotions and, you know, they’re human and I want to see them being human. I think as there are more and more people writing in this space, that there isn’t the same kind of pressure for someone to be perfect. Because, you know, even back then this was true, but I think that people kind of took it very seriously that like one character was the utmost, like had to be the representation for all characters in that community, right?
So, you know, whatever is bad representation or good representation, that’s all kind of, you know, I think the more people are writing that will have the range and there’s less pressure for someone to create. Someone who theoretically can’t exist as someone who might represent an entire community.
19/11/2025, 20:51 - Finbarre: Is there a messy & complex character in fiction like this that you have enjoyed recently?
19/11/2025, 20:52 - Finbarre: I ask as my shelves always have room for just *one* extra book recommendation
19/11/2025, 20:53 - C.B. Lee: City in the Middle of the Night by Charlie Jane Anders
19/11/2025, 20:54 - C.B. Lee: Sophie and the girl she’s in love with - who is part of the ruling class , they’re both so much
19/11/2025, 20:54 - C.B. Lee: The novel is great
19/11/2025, 20:55 - Finbarre: Set on a tidally locked planet? Social division and drama? SOLD
19/11/2025, 20:55 - C.B. Lee: Its epic and amazing
19/11/2025, 20:57 - Finbarre:
Time for your last card. Now, this is the Gift Card that’s been handed down from the previous guest on Tarot DMs.
And that was Cay Macres, who is the writer of the interactive novel Witch’s Brew: Love and Lattes. They have given you this.
19/11/2025, 20:58 - Finbarre:
19/11/2025, 20:58 - Finbarre: I boldly assume The Page is the person in the fancy doublet and not the scaly one in the goblet
19/11/2025, 20:59 - Finbarre: Also. Another from the Cups suit?
19/11/2025, 21:01 - Finbarre:
In tarot readings, the Page of Cups often represents a wide-eyed and tender spirit. So, thinking of that, when inspiration first knocked when you were a young writer, what naive hopes did you have then that you’ve kept alive?
19/11/2025, 21:05 - C.B. Lee:
I think it’s about joy. You know, what you said earlier about writing my works with tenderness, I feel like that’s such a great insight because I really do want people to see and read my work and feel like they are being comforted or held or like that they’re safe here in this story and that it’s going to be a good time.
I think the inspiration that I hold on to is really like why I write, why do I write, why am I here? And it’s really, I think, because storytelling gives us so much joy and gives me joy to bring that to the world. You know, I want to see the world have more stories that really inspire us. And so I’m just looking forward to sharing these with the world.
19/11/2025, 21:07 - Finbarre:
Sometimes I do wish this was a video podcast because you would see the big smile that you’ve placed on my face. Thank you so much, C.B. Lee. And to continue the spirit of passing on the love, which card would you offer to the next guest?
19/11/2025, 21:09 - C.B. Lee:
19/11/2025, 21:10 - Finbarre:
A fabulous choice!
19/11/2025, 21:13 - Finbarre:
It has been wonderful having you on Tarot DMs, C.B. Lee. Please give my love and my scritches to Sherlock and Bao.
I have just heard the front door go downstairs. My wife has arrived back with the kids, and they have crumbled up cookies to stick into ice cream. So I’ll need to disappear off shortly. Before I go, do you have any news on when your new book will be coming out?
19/11/2025, 21:14 - C.B. Lee: Enjoy those cookies!!
19/11/2025, 21:15 - C.B. Lee:
It still has not yet been announced, but likely it wouldn’t be until 2027. The project will possibly be announced before the end of the year. Maybe not. I don’t know. It might be announced next early next year.
Readers can follow my Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/cblee_cblee and I’ll post news about it when I do get word when it’s okay to post.
Thank you for having me. This was really fun!