Chat #29 - Elspeth Wilson
"You are answering what calls your name"
This interview is free to read. Paid subscriptions support artist honoraria.
Elspeth Wilson is the author of the debut novel These Mortal Bodies and the poetry pamphlet Too Hot to Sleep. In her spare time, she enjoys swimming, vegan food, and spending time with her rescue dog.
Find Elspeth at elspethwilson.co.uk
21/04/2026, 20:32 - Finbarre:
Welcome! I’m Finbarre Snarey and today’s guest is Elspeth Wilson, a writer and poet. Her debut novel, These Mortal Bodies reads like a tipsy waltz to a discordant orchestra into a glamorous and secretive world. As with all Tarot DMs conversations, the structure is simple. We draw three prompts from the tarot. We have an Anchor card shared across the month. We have a Wild card drawn in the moment. And we have the Gift card, which is passed forward from the previous guest. Elspeth. Thank you for joining me.
21/04/2026, 20:34 - Elspeth Wilson:
Hi, Finbarre. Oh, it’s so nice to be here. And I think that’s one of my favorite descriptions of my work ever. I love that. A tipsy waltz! Thank you so much. Yeah, I am, I’m really excited for this conversation. I’ve really enjoyed reading the interviews you’ve had with other guests. And I really like this style of talking.
It feels quite, yeah, quite cozy and non pressurized which is so nice. And it sort of feels like being together in a way, but in a way, yeah, that just feels a bit like less pressurized and more chill.
21/04/2026, 20:35 - Finbarre:
You are kind. Plus it means if I take my phone, I can walk over to the bay windows and see something of the gorgeous sunset that I have outside. So as it’s been a lovely day for me, tell me what you’ve been up to.
21/04/2026, 20:37 - Elspeth Wilson: I’m glad it’s been a lovely day with you! I have been hiking this morning (recently moved to France for my partner’s work) with my small rescue dog - one of the things I love most about being freelance is getting to try and follow my whims and energy a little more. I used to try fit my freelance life info a very rigid schedule but then I realised I was denying myself one of the pleasures that’s the upside to the instability! After that I did some writing and work in the evening
21/04/2026, 20:39 - Finbarre: Before we open the deck and explore the cards (we’re using The Golden Art Noveau Tarot today) I need to ask your opinion on a question that will task your creative powers to the maximum, dare you meet the challenge?
21/04/2026, 20:40 - Elspeth Wilson: I am ready 😎
21/04/2026, 20:40 - Finbarre: EXCELLENT
21/04/2026, 20:40 - Finbarre: Take a look at this...
21/04/2026, 20:40 - Finbarre:
21/04/2026, 20:41 - Finbarre:
Now what you can see there is my wife’s cello case. We have gone to great lengths, taken great pains to make the bedroom in our house finally look like adults live there. It looks really good, but we have unfortunately, nowhere to put this cello. It’s currently my bay window and it doesn’t have a home.
So what I need is a way of making it into a statement piece. I’m thinking maybe googly eyes a hat. Having a look at that picture, what would you do if you are in my, in my shoes or slippers as the case is?
21/04/2026, 20:44 - Elspeth Wilson:
Ooh. My immediate thought was could you drape it in something? Is there a nice piece of fabric that you have or something that maybe used to be a curtain or a tablecloth or even just Yeah, a piece of, a piece of fabric you have. Could you, could it be draped in that? I think it would almost give a slightly like ghostly presence in the corner, uh, like a figure was underneath it.
But the reason I thought of this is my aunt was a psychotherapist for many, many years and she ran her home practice from. From her living room and her H house is quite small, so she used to kind of drape things like her television when she wanted to, um, create, I suppose a bit of a mental divide both for her client, but probably more importantly for herself when she wanted to sort of be in a different mode.
And so she had her television covered in this really beautiful, um, multicolored I guess it was probably meant to be some sort of small blanket thing, but I always just knew it. As a little kid is something that, um, yeah. Covered the television. It would come off when she wanted to watch it, or, yeah, when she wanted to make her living room more living room-y again.
21/04/2026, 20:47 - Finbarre:
That is absolute genius. A draper of veer is I need to get some kind of sumptuous material, waft it over the top, and then feeling incredibly clever, go to sleep and then jump out of my bed. I will forget and I will think I’m being haunted. Speaking of things spooky, what is your, um, what’s your experience of the tarot?
Have you. I’ve got a deck yourself. Is it something you dabbled with at some point? Are you one of those people that you may get particular cards and you have strong feelings? I’d love to know more.
21/04/2026, 20:51 - Elspeth Wilson:
So I think my experience of tarot has often been that it’s come to my life as something of a gift. It’s often been friends who have had very beautiful tarot decks who’ve offered me readings either virtually or in person. And I think that has been something where. I’ve really appreciated it because it’s often been at junctures in my life where I’m thinking about things or asking myself questions.
So it’s both sort of provided reflection on that. And then also, felt like something quite intimate and special to share with that person. And you know, that they’ve offered me something, which I’m really appreciative of. So it sort of developed that relationship and felt really warm as well.
And then when I was writing my novel, These Mortal Bodies, which you mentioned, obviously I became sort of more interested in some of the... more traditional meanings, I suppose. So I did my, did my own research because I’ve always been quite interested in ta in tarot as a tool for creativity as a jumping off point or a prompt or however people want to take it.
But then I also realized my characters, it felt, especially with one of the characters that quite appropriate, it felt very hard that she would be interested in tarots. So I wrote her as someone who had these very beautiful decks that she’d inherited. And I asked friends to do some readings for my characters.
And then I did my own research about the traditional meanings.
21/04/2026, 20:54 - Finbarre:
I’m picturing that modern trend of the path of least resistance, where people will ask a large language model, various questions about things that they’re researching, but here you are using a analog AI consulting, the wisdom of the tarot to guide you in your story. I, I think that’s incredible. Okay. We have the deck just here, and of course the Anchor card.
For this month is The Fool, although I’m looking at my calendar, we don’t have many days left, so I’ll be showing you that card in a moment and I’d love to get a, a vibe check on what you see.
21/04/2026, 20:54 - Finbarre:
21/04/2026, 20:56 - Elspeth Wilson: I feel like this person looks so radiant! Like yes they’re a little bit in danger but they also look very blissful?! I love this card mostly for the dog though. My dog is absolutely the love of my life and I have always loved art that depicts human relationships with animals
21/04/2026, 20:58 - Finbarre: It could well be your hiking there. Or randonnée as the locals might say? (If I can still trust my GCSE French)
21/04/2026, 20:59 - Elspeth Wilson: Exactly! C’est ça 🥰
21/04/2026, 21:00 - Finbarre:
I am the fool when it comes to trying to speak that language. Right… The meaning of this particular card is someone who’s standing at the threshold of experience, which is a little bit like being in another country, I suppose, and you are unburdened by preconceptions, so it’s about a transformative step.
Your tarot question will be when you began writing seriously. What was your first act of trust in yourself?
21/04/2026, 21:01 - Elspeth Wilson:
That’s a lovely question and I also, yeah, I love that about the card because I think that’s kind of how I feel at the moment, just reflecting on, on the meaning of this month’s card because I’ve had so much sort of, of my brain in the kind of industry side of writing with my day becoming out last year and having to do a lot of events and author, admin and things, and now I feel like I’m really coming back to the writing. The creative side of things and trying to just come into that with this few, I guess, as little baggage as possible, and a sign of feeling re-energized and and joyful about it again.
21/04/2026, 21:02 - Elspeth Wilson: In terms of the first act of trust in myself, I think it was probably staying up late at night writing after work. It felt like staking my claim, saying this is important to me and I’m going to act accordingly and put it above other time commitments
21/04/2026, 21:03 - Finbarre: How late are we talking?
21/04/2026, 21:05 - Elspeth Wilson: Not super late - I need a lot of sleep haha. But I certainly remember writing in bed until about midnight. I also used to write in my email drafts all the time, sneaking in writing whenever I could at work or in meetings
21/04/2026, 21:07 - Finbarre:
I’m completely with you about needing lots of sleep. I think come nine o’clock or beyond, I probably lack the fine motor control to write at any length and the idea of gazing into a screen or just keep me awake. But having said that, as soon as my eyes are closed and I’m off into dreamland. I will come up with the maddest of storylines and it’s almost like an IMAX cinema going on between my ears and I wake up and poof, it’s gone.
Oh well. I will ask you about your four-legged friend after the second card, and I can’t wait ‘cause I normally go straight into asking about pets and I love the sound of your companion. We’ll leave that until just after the second card, which I’m about to draw for you. So what I’d like you to do is from whichever part of France you are in I don’t know it very well.
I’ve been to Brittany, which I love. It’s basically the west country with better food. Don’t like Paris. In fact, I would say that if I was in a, I don’t know, one of the circles of hell. It would probably be Paris probably watching a golf match whilst eating miso soup. So I’ll be drawing a card for you, completely distracted.
Think of whichever tarot card would be the most important to you, and we’ll see if we get it.
21/04/2026, 21:09 - Elspeth Wilson: Yes me too, I write poems in my head and I always tell myself I’ll remember them and then I never do!
21/04/2026, 21:11 - Finbarre:
Okay, let’s try this out. Yeah, I’ve just put the record button on lock and you can hear the cards. So here they go. Round and round. Lemme know when to stop.
21/04/2026, 21:11 - Elspeth Wilson: Stop!
21/04/2026, 21:12 - Finbarre:
21/04/2026, 21:12 - Finbarre: It is the...
21/04/2026, 21:12 - Finbarre: ...
21/04/2026, 21:12 - Finbarre: Interesting
21/04/2026, 21:13 - Finbarre: This rakish chap
21/04/2026, 21:13 - Finbarre:
21/04/2026, 21:13 - Elspeth Wilson: Oh he is very rakish!
21/04/2026, 21:15 - Finbarre:
Elspeth, your Wild card is the Page of Pentacles, which is a card of ambition, but it’s the early stages of that ambition. It’s when an idea becomes something that you can hold or measure or shape. So it’s dedication, it’s humility, and it’s understanding that mastery is something that you achieve through.
Repetition and attention, and however many times you need to do something to become a master.
21/04/2026, 21:15 - Finbarre:
So it’s development, not necessarily reward.
21/04/2026, 21:16 - Finbarre:
If the Page of Pentacles was to ask you a question, the sly fox that he is, he would probably raise an eyebrow and ask you what creative skills you’ve been exploring recently.
21/04/2026, 21:18 - Elspeth Wilson:
I love his expression in this card. Yeah, I think my creative skills recently have been that I’ve been exploring, have been around noticing and practicing, noticing I’m keeping a little, different notebooks except a lot of different notebooks. I have my notebook from my everyday journaling. I have a one-liner a day notebook.
I keep, I have a notebook I have just for writing workshops when I’m attending them. And I’ve started one just to write down some nature, some things I’ve noticed when I’m out, nature other animals, other species, other people, what they’re up to. So the practice of noticing and then I’m also really.
I’ve all, I’ve practiced yoga for over 10 years now. I did a yoga teacher training last year. But for various reasons at the start of this year, I haven’t been practicing yoga as much, so I’ve been coming back to that as a creative practice and, and dancing as well. So yeah, movement and noticing.
21/04/2026, 21:21 - Finbarre: Do you use different pens for the various notebooks out of interests? I ask as I’d swear I’m more expressive with some than with others!
21/04/2026, 21:22 - Elspeth Wilson: I am very picky about my pens! I think I have a really light touch or something because if I use a biro it barely even leaves a mark on the page?!
21/04/2026, 21:22 - Elspeth Wilson: So I always use this one:
21/04/2026, 21:23 - Elspeth Wilson:
21/04/2026, 21:23 - Elspeth Wilson: I have been using them since I was at university
21/04/2026, 21:24 - Finbarre: Oh GREAT CHOICE! I have one of those but I definitely didn’t buy it, might have swiped it from someone who stole yours
21/04/2026, 21:25 - Finbarre: My favourite is the classic Pilot G1 0.7mm which allows me to scribblyscrawl
21/04/2026, 21:25 - Finbarre:
21/04/2026, 21:26 - Finbarre:
Finbarre Snarey, what are you doing? You are here talking about pens when I want to know, and everyone else wants to know more about your dog. So first of all, what is the precious little pooch called? I’m assuming little pooch. It might be the size of a great dane, and could you show me a picture? I would love to see.
21/04/2026, 21:26 - Elspeth Wilson: Ooh I’ll need to check that out. I sort of feel a bit physically off if I write with the wrong kind of pen like a biro, like I have motion sickness in my hand
21:28 - Elspeth Wilson: This is Ginny in various poses!
21/04/2026, 21:29 - Elspeth Wilson: She is a rescue dog who was confiscated by the police in an animal cruelty case and now lives her best life hiking and getting pampered 🥰
21/04/2026, 21:30 - Finbarre: Getting fuss and scratches whilst rolling about in rooms with towers of books? Agreed!
21/04/2026, 21:31 - Elspeth Wilson: Absolutely! She loves fuss. We both share a little dramatic streak
21/04/2026, 21:32 - Finbarre:
Well, who doesn’t like lying on the floor? Spread out in a ta-da pose. Okay, card number three. We better move on. This card was given to you. Now this is the guest card by Alice Slater who is the writer of Let the Bad Times Roll, and this is the card that she picked.
21/04/2026, 21:32 - Finbarre:
21/04/2026, 21:34 - Elspeth Wilson: It’s absolutely a tah-dah pose!
21/04/2026, 21:34 - Elspeth Wilson: Thank you Alice!
21/04/2026, 21:34 - Finbarre:
It’s fascinating how well this follows on from the Page of Pentacles. This is a card of recognition following sustained effort, and it’s demonstrated resilience. It signals a, a milestone reached or favorable feedback, or the strengthening of a reputation. It’s putting in the hard yards.
21/04/2026, 21:35 - Finbarre:
You know that feeling when you’ve had a hell of a day and you arrive home and someone has either cooked for you or unexpectedly ordered a takeaway. It’s that feeling of being supported.
21/04/2026, 21:36 - Elspeth Wilson: May we all know that feeling of being supported
21/04/2026, 21:37 - Finbarre:
The Six of Wands would ask - what kind of recognition feels the most meaningful?
21/04/2026, 21:39 - Elspeth Wilson:
I think that’s such an important question as an artist and something that I’ve been pondering a lot. I was actually reading a lot of Substack today about the state of the publishing industry and how it’s so difficult at the moment, which in some ways is obviously really depressing and has really meaningful impacts on people’s livelihoods in terms of lower advances and publishers acquiring less. But in a way, I feel like the silver lining of that is that you might as well just write exactly what you want to write. ‘cause I mean, it’s always been that way, but the market is in such turmoil right now. And that’s something I’ve been thinking about a lot lately and thinking about, yeah, what, what kind of recognition matters And I think ultimately, it has to be your own, recognizing that you are doing what you want to do, that you’re writing what you want to write, that you are answering what calls your name. That obviously isn’t the recognition in the traditional sense of it, but I think that seeing someone recognize your work and meeting readers and having that conversation with them is so important, but…. you are the only person that you have to spend every second of your life with, right? And I think that’s true in all sorts of avenues of life, but I think it’s true in making art and writing as well. I think you want to look back and think, I did what I wanted to and followed what I wanted to follow. So I think there’s a kind of self recognition there that’s really important.
Everything else is a nice to have and I think getting recognition from readers, other readers, other writers is so lovely and, and that’s so important. But that comes from, I think, the recognition for yourself and what you want to do.
21/04/2026, 21:43 - Finbarre:
Following on Elspeth about what you were saying when it comes to other readers and other writers recognizing your work, what response have you either seen or heard from either of those two that surprised you the most?
21/04/2026, 21:46 - Elspeth Wilson:
I’ve been so lucky because other writers and other readers have both been super generous about these mortal bodies. And I think getting quotes through from other writers who enjoyed it was just, yeah, such a special experience. I think the thing that surprised me the most though, and again it just reminded me, which I suppose I already knew, but maybe hadn’t fully internalized, just how much, once you put something out there really becomes… something for other people to interpret and that what you intended might just be so odds with how they receive it, and that’s, that’s absolutely fine. But there’s a character, a particular character in These Mortal Bodies called George, who’s the main male character in the book. And the book overall is about. Many things. It really centers friendship at its heart, but it also is exploring femininity and the weaponization thereof. And I personally find George quite a sympathetic character. I think that he is viewed by some of the female characters as almost sort of one-dimensional because he embodies that kind of idea of upper class male privilege.
When you think about him at a human level, he’s quite sensitive and he’s sweet. Um, and without saying too much, I, yeah, I have a lot of empathy for him within the story, but I have definitely experienced both readers who are like, “I hate George”. And definitely kind of more have the character’s perspective on him and then also people who feel like he was written in a way, which is, sort of really anti-men, which is also was not my intention. But I just think those things are really curious. You know, like I think the good thing about publishing being slow is that there can be a bit of a sense of non-attachment to a work after the big gap between writing it and publishing. And I think in a way that’s helped me because yeah, when I have see those reactions now I have that feeling of, curious more than anything else.
21/04/2026, 21:51 - Finbarre:
I feel like George now needs to be brought into an expanded universe. Maybe a trilogy, maybe. Maybe a prequel containing his origin story. Yes, I’m being silly. We’ve done your three cards. We don’t have the Guest card to offer to the next person. Think of whichever card comes to you. Or even if it’s some stray symbolism, if it’s a card you’ve seen recently, if it’s just a general vibe, and tell me what that is.
21/04/2026, 21:53 - Elspeth Wilson: I have been thinking about a prequel for real though haha - I’d love to write more about the Saint Clair sisters, the characters from the historical subplot in the novel
21/04/2026, 21:54 - Elspeth Wilson:
The card. Sorry, I’m laughing because Ginny’s doing something silly in the background. But the card that has been on my mind has been The Moon because this is a card that I have seen often depicted with wolves. And I have been obviously spending a lot of time with with my own dog and I, yeah. It is just the one that’s, that comes straight to mind and the one that really, when I picture the cards, that’s the one that comes most clearly.
21/04/2026, 21:57 - Finbarre:
Oh, intriguing. The card of mystery and illusion. Also, sometimes mixed signals and that feeling of being swayed in emotional fog. I’ll be interested to see A, who gets that and B, what their response is. That’d be fascinating. Elspeth and the fabulously dramatic Ginny, who’s probably up to nonsense as I speak.
Thank you so much for spending your time with me and the cards, and for telling us about These Mortal Bodies… and we’ll get to find out who received The Moon In the next episode of Tarot DMs.
21/04/2026, 21:59 - Elspeth Wilson: What a lovely way to spend an evening in great company
21/04/2026, 21:59 - Elspeth Wilson: Ginny approved!
