Chat #26 - Marie Waller
"Tarot is perhaps the breadcrumbs to find the way out of the forest"
This interview is free to read. Paid subscriptions support artist honoraria.
Marie Waller is a freelance writer, editor and proofreader based in Northampton, UK. On her Substack, Ghost of a Smile, she writes about life as an elder millennial, but with the added complication of banshees in the background and poltergeists in the corner.
Previously, Marie was script editor and co-writer for the Haunted UK Podcast from seasons 3 to 7. She now writes articles about the supernatural, alongside fiction that explores the strange in the everyday - or the everyday in the strange.
Her article on the heart-ripping lore of King’s Lynn appears in the latest edition of Haunted magazine, available in selected shops and through TGJones nationwide.
Discover more at Ghost of a Smile
28/03/2026, 19:30 - Finbarre: Apologies for the late start - I just wolfed down a chippy tea and got distracted by Blackadder II as the kids were watching it. Have you got a tarot deck to hand, out of interest?
28/03/2026, 19:31 - Marie Waller: That sounds delightful!! What a great combination! Yep I have as it just so happens!
28/03/2026, 19:37 - Finbarre:
Welcome, welcome to Tarot DMs with Finbarre Snarey. Today I have the absolute pleasure of speaking to Marie Waller, someone who I’ve been following for some time on Substack, looking at their work Ghost of a Smile, which is about ghosts and folklore, haunted history, where every day meets the uncanny. And in this edition of Tarot DMs, we’ll start asking questions about that world. Hello Marie!
28/03/2026, 19:38 - Marie Waller:
Hello Finbarre, delighted to be on Tarot DMs and that was a lovely introduction.
28/03/2026, 19:41 - Finbarre:
Marie, before we open the tarot deck, I need to talk to you about my charity shop habit.
So in Beeston, Nottinghamshire, we have, well, we have countless charity shops. We have so many, and some of them are best for, I don’t know, if you want old DVDs, VHS, some of them are good for white goods, but there’s one particular one that has cursed items. When I step through the door, my eyes will lock upon something on one of the shelves across the shop, and it will say, buy me.
Now, previously, these have been things like, there’s a brass hourglass that’s so tarnished and covered in little kind of, that sort of patina effect that you get on an antique. Now, I don’t know what happens when the sand runs out on this, but on top of it, I have a angel figure. She’s all curled up into a kind of, almost into a ball with her wings spread wide out her back. It looks like she’s crying. I’ll pop a picture in the chat in a moment. So my question to you, before we start asking tarot questions, what’s the most cursed, evil, uncanny item you have in your house?
28/03/2026, 19:43 - Marie Waller: Love this question !!!
28/03/2026, 19:43 - Finbarre:
90% certain she won’t look up when you blink
28/03/2026, 19:45 - Finbarre:
Definitely no evil vibes here
28/03/2026, 19:46 - Marie Waller:
Oh the angel is beautiful I don’t feel she’s haunted I feel like she’s just just this beautiful sprite she’s lovely and the hourglass. I love it, oh my goodness this is just my cup of tea! I love this question so much, I do actually have is it a grandmother clock? It’s not quite a grandfather clock from 1911 and I absolutely love it and I’m not sure if it’s haunted but there’s somethingabout the area in my house where it is which kind of gives me the creeps I don’t know why but I love it.
I love how it chimes it creates a sort of eeriness in the hall, it takes me back in time and there’s something about clocks and ghosts and spirits too.
My grandmother used to keep a clock in a cupboard and especially for notifying her of a death so if it stopped she knew someone had died and it used to terrify my mum. So yeah clocks in particular really fascinate me.
28/03/2026, 19:47 - Marie Waller: The hourglass has Wizard of Oz vibes !
28/03/2026, 19:48 - Finbarre:
Oh, you’re too kind. I think it has more Return To Oz vibes.
28/03/2026, 19:48 - Marie Waller: Best film ever though !!
28/03/2026, 19:48 - Marie Waller: Return to Oz !
28/03/2026, 19:49 - Finbarre: Best film ever for cowering into the sofa cushions and wondering sweet dear lord why did you ever rent it from Blockbuster! I digress. So. Tarot.
28/03/2026, 19:49 - Marie Waller: 😂😂
28/03/2026, 19:49 - Finbarre:
Speaking of those early experiences, what was the first deck you ever owned?
What was the first time you ever encountered the tarot?
28/03/2026, 19:50 - Marie Waller:
The clock
28/03/2026, 19:52 - Marie Waller:
Okay, well it’s kind of checkered my history of the tarot. I was brought up a Catholic so I was sadly wary of the tarot. I kind of put it in the same space as the Ouija board which I was always warned of. So then it also had a bit of allure really I suppose.
So growing up I was to kind of counter this more into angel cards and me and my best friend would always read angel cards and it’s really not until probably lately in the past few years that I really got into tarot and I think the current deck that I have is my first deck.
Yeah and I always thought you had to go to someone to read tarot that you couldn’t just read it yourself which is what I do all the time now. So yeah I always thought someone else had to read your tarot.
28/03/2026, 19:54 - Marie Waller:
Trusty angel cards ! Diane Cooper. Do love them …
28/03/2026, 19:55 - Marie Waller:
Current and first deck ! I love them …
28/03/2026, 19:55 - Finbarre:
You know how suddenly out of the blue you can get an earworm, you can get a piece of a song.
As you were speaking there, you reminded me of the song Case of You by Joni Mitchell, where she says something like, I’m frightened by the devil, but I’m drawn to those who ain’t afraid.
And I had visions of this kind of this opening, this discovery that you must have when it comes to all things spooky. And then the spark of an interest becomes a fascination.
So I’ve got my deck here. Are you ready?
28/03/2026, 19:56 - Finbarre: Those are SINISTER
28/03/2026, 19:56 - Marie Waller:
That is so true. I had such contrasting forces in my life growing up. I had my English grandmother who was speaky as hell and loved ghosts and Ouija board and I had my Irish grandparents who were staunch Catholics and you couldn’t talk about ghosts. So yeah, it’s a funny one. But yes, I am ready to go. I’m very excited.
28/03/2026, 19:57 - Marie Waller:
And I love that song, Case of You.
28/03/2026, 19:58 - Finbarre:
The last Strength card of of March, from the marvellous Theatre Deli deck
28/03/2026, 19:58 - Marie Waller: What a striking design
28/03/2026, 19:59 - Marie Waller:
I have this book that I discovered in a charity shop as well. I don’t think it was a haunted charity shop, but it’s called The Secret Language of Birthdays.
It has a page for every birthday and it tells you about their personality. The tarot card for my birthday is the Strength card.
28/03/2026, 20:00 - Marie Waller:
This is such an engrossing book . As soon as I find out someone’s birthday , I dive in !
28/03/2026, 20:01 - Finbarre:
I do love that celestial art style that was very popular in about 1992 and has now come back. I have decorated my ceiling to that theme. What a wonderful card to have attributed to your birthday.
Okay. So thinking about strength and thinking about the writing of yours that I’ve seen, when you’re looking at witches and grief and strange histories that require tenderness and bravery, where do you get your power from?
28/03/2026, 20:02 - Marie Waller: Great question!
28/03/2026, 20:05 - Marie Waller:
That’s a really powerful question, actually. It’s really made me think.
Well, I’m an absolute introvert and I think finding time to be alone is where I recharge and find my power.
I think my sense of self can be easily diluted when I’m around more potent people, I suppose.
And I think it’s just important for me to find time alone, to listen to myself, what I really think and feel, and to give myself space to be creative. I think when I’m creative, that’s where I find my power.
If that’s restricted in any way or I don’t give myself enough time to do that, then I’m deeply unhappy then I don’t feel very powerful.
28/03/2026, 20:07 - Finbarre:
From that seed of solitude come great shoots. How does your creativity manifest?
Do you find yourself like me doodling on a desk, thinking up weird and wonderful things to do tomorrow, plans for next year that go in a notebook?
What does creativity look like to you?
28/03/2026, 20:10 - Marie Waller:
Yes, being by myself really, really helps, you know, my thoughts can’t be too crowded.
Creativity tends to strike at really inconvenient times, actually when I have nothing to write on.
But yeah, I have to get myself time sort of fill up my cup if you like, so tend to reading, tend to walks.
Inspiration tends to strike when I’m around water, weirdly, you know, in the bath in the shower, strangely, even by the dishwasher, is like it’s sort of weird portal. But yeah, I get this idea and I have to use your writing in the notes section of my phone, and it just sort of grows from there. If I write things straight on a computer, that seems way too scary.
I get a bit of stage fright, so I usually is, you know, standing by the dishwasher, and then writing something down in a notebook or on my notes app.
It just just grows from there. Sometimes, sometimes, I wake up with a sentence in my mind, and it’s like it’s been put there.
And that’s like a little green shoot, and from that, something tends to grow as well. That’s weird when I wake up with a sentence.
28/03/2026, 20:12 - Finbarre:
Marie, before we move on to the next card, and while you have the secret language of birthdays nearby, I’m going to have to ask you, would it be possible for you to look at my birthday and just read out a little bit of what’s there?
I’m incredibly curious. So my birthday is March the 19th. It’s been and gone. Had a great time. Got some wonderful presents. And pull no punches. Let me know what’s in there.
28/03/2026, 20:12 - Marie Waller: Of course ! 🖤
28/03/2026, 20:15 - Marie Waller:
28/03/2026, 20:16 - Marie Waller:
Okay, so March 19th, your strengths are that you’re persuasive, tireless, thorough. Your weaknesses are that you’re unaware, I’m awful saying this, stubborn and closed. Your tarot card is the sun. Yeah, so it says you need to achieve your ends and know how to use your charm and allure to help others, I think.
March 19th people possess very pure and childlike qualities. There are expansive types who sometimes give the impression that they are in another world, but they are in fact forceful and businesslike. Thus, they are a bit paradoxical in nature and can appear to others as being dreamy and fiery. Is that you, Finbarre?
28/03/2026, 20:17 - Finbarre:
I couldn’t possibly possibly comment. It seems here that I’m level-headed yet away with the pixies, which is probably fair. And I’m especially appreciating the fact that there is an otter as the illustration here. Yes to all of that, especially to being pure of heart.
28/03/2026, 20:17 - Marie Waller: Lovely tarot to have !
28/03/2026, 20:18 - Finbarre:
Thank you so much for doing that, Marie, and taking a cheeky peek into my soul there. Now, I’ve got cards in my hand for the wild card, which is card number two, and I’m shuffling them as we speak. So can I ask, where is it in the UK that you’re based?
28/03/2026, 20:19 - Marie Waller:
I’m based in Northampton, the land of the great Alan Moore, Bear House, and John Clare. So a lot of Gothic vibes going on there, although I don’t think John Clare was a goth. I don’t know, you might dispute that. Yeah, so Northampton.
28/03/2026, 20:19 - Finbarre:
Not too far away then. So the signal hopefully will be even more accurate. So here I am shuffling your cards away and say, stop when you feel the moment’s right.
28/03/2026, 20:20 - Marie Waller: Stop !
28/03/2026, 20:21 - Finbarre:
The Five of Pentacles (upside down)
28/03/2026, 20:22 - Marie Waller: I often get this card . That’s so strange !
28/03/2026, 20:23 - Finbarre:
This one is such a peculiar, contradictory card. It’s one of help being available, of returning to stability, of finding your footing again.
It’s a card where the crisis is now over, and this is a time of repair. So it’s a card that invites you to accept support and to learn that isolation and hardship do not define who you are.
Okay. With that in mind, let me conjure up a question for you. That is a deeply strange looking card. It’s quite fitting.
28/03/2026, 20:25 - Marie Waller: Yes it makes me think of perhaps outgrowing something and feeling trapped . It’s quite claustrophobic.
28/03/2026, 20:26 - Finbarre:
This is a potentially difficult one to answer as I need to delve into not when everything is fixed, but more about how rebuilding takes time.
Okay, your question is, what does recovery look like to you when it is partial, imperfect, but underway when it comes to your creative work?
28/03/2026, 20:30 - Marie Waller: I do have a bumpy road and relationship with confidence . So occasionally I’ll have a blip with my work and be riddled with self doubt and be a little stuck in how I can approach things .
I think it’s always taking baby steps with things such as my writing . It’s always finding humour . And …
28/03/2026, 20:32 - Marie Waller:
And also I look to other people to get inspired um Hilary Mantel if I have a real writing blip I will simply read a paragraph of her work and I’m just good to go. Not to copy her it’s just that to me her style of writing is like a shot of coffee. It just wakes me up something about the pattern of her sentences.
Kate Bush, just reading about her I’m reading her biography at the moment it’s just so inspiring but listening to her music songs as well music that gets me going so those kind of things help in my recovery… it’s baby steps doing taking things really slow.
It’s listening to music, being around people who inspire me, reading good writing and lots of nature walks and being around a lot of trees. Even hugging trees. I’d love to hug a tree.
28/03/2026, 20:34 - Finbarre:
I have a confession. I like this album so much I have it on vinyl, twice.
28/03/2026, 20:34 - Marie Waller: That was very searching question and I enjoyed the deep dive into my dark and rather odd psyche ! It was something maybe I needed to think about - so thank you !
28/03/2026, 20:36 - Marie Waller: Hounds of Love is her finest piece of work. It really is. It all just came together. I don’t blame you! I have a deep respect for this 😂
I do have a really soft spot for The Dreaming . The donkey eeyores, the madness of it all. Just inspired. And I love that EMI hated it but she pressed on anyway. Created regardless in her own way. That’s what really inspires me.
Yes she’s definitely part of my recovery !
28/03/2026, 20:39 - Finbarre:
Running Up That Hill has to be in my top favourite five songs of all time. Even the B-side, the B-side Under The Ivy is again one of her best songs. And it was just on there almost as an afterthought.
Okay, card number three. Before I start going into the entire Kate Bush back catalogue, of which I could probably have, that’s actually a good idea, a Kate Bush podcast… I’m sure it’s not been done.
We need to go into card three. Which is the Gift card that’s been donated to you.
It’s been handed to you by the last guest, Amy Twigg. She’s the author of Spoilt Creatures and a book coming out called Milk Bread Teeth.
Now, this card. I’m going to have to send you the exact picture she sent me, it is from the Labyrinth deck. Yeah, it’s the Page of Junk.
28/03/2026, 20:40 - Finbarre:
28/03/2026, 20:41 - Marie Waller: Please can we do a Kate Bush podcast 😂
28/03/2026, 20:42 - Marie Waller: Well I can’t tell you how much I’m enjoying this conversation - ghosts, haunted objects, Kate Bush and now Labyrinth! One of my ultimate favourites.
What a day ! 😂
28/03/2026, 20:43 - Marie Waller: Is this the junk lady in the swamp scene ?
28/03/2026, 20:46 - Finbarre:
Great minds think alike or fools seldom differ because I thought exactly the same thing. When I first saw that I was immediately given a flashback of the Junk :ady who I think she makes Sarah forget her quest by plying her with her own possessions and there’s something just so unsettling… I mean I’ve got… I will take a picture of this. I’ve got goosebumps on my arm hang on one second.
There we go. Picture taken. Yeah even thinking about the memory of that woman gives me chills but I don’t think it’s her I think it’s a goblin. One of the many goblins running around with one of those little helmets on. Those silly little dudes. Okay I don’t know which suit this actually corresponds to. I think it’s Pentacles this isn’t my deck and I don’t have much experience of this one so I’m gonna apply the Page of Pentacles reading to this.
28/03/2026, 20:49 - Finbarre:
Thinking of “Don’t you like your toys” Argh!
28/03/2026, 20:51 - Marie Waller: It’s quite uncanny how I seem to get a lot of Pentacles in readings lately.
The Junk Lady used to unnerve me too. I’ve, worryingly, likened myself to her a few times - I tend to collect things … could it be hoarding? My husband might think so. I do worry I am the Junk Lady 😂
28/03/2026, 20:52 - Marie Waller: Wow !
A eighties childhood can linger … ( well for me anyway !)
28/03/2026, 20:52 - Finbarre:
I’m sure collecting things is a sign of discernment. At least that’s what I tell myself.
Right, your last question for, let’s call it the Page of Pentacles or Page of JJunk.
What is it you’re still learning about, with hunger, when it comes to writing?
28/03/2026, 20:55 - Marie Waller:
I think it’s making writing a priority in my life. And that’s something that I’ve really decided recently in the past year or so, is to make it a real priority.
That is really important to me because it did get sidelined and I’ve realised that it kind of gives me life.
And it’s just as important as, I don’t know, food shopping.
So, you know, it’s important for me to make time to write, make a sacred space in the week to write regularly.
And that’s something I have learnt and it’s still ongoing.
Yeah, it’s making time, making space for writing. I’m still learning that and getting the balance right with family life and everything else.
28/03/2026, 20:58 - Marie Waller: And also with fiction - I have been slightly apprehensive of revisiting fictional projects because it has an unknown structure and I’m really trying to get that back to that child-like quality of losing myself in a story and letting go .
28/03/2026, 21:00 - Finbarre:
Your wise words of shaping that creative space within which to find that spark of yourself is something that I very much need to do.
So thank you very much for the kick up the bum that I needed to plot that into my calendar.
Right.
We have just enough time for you, Marie, to pick up your cards, to shuffle, to select one.
However you want to pick the card for the next guest and take a picture, I would love to see what you get.
28/03/2026, 21:03 - Marie Waller:
Yes, the tarot pack I’m using is called the Tarot of the Unknown.
I got it last year for my birthday from my friend and I just love them. And it’s based on the animation series Over the Garden Wall, which I’ve never watched. I didn’t even realise until someone actually pointed it out to me.
It’s about two brothers, Wirt and Greg, who get lost in the unknown in a forest. And I think that’s how I feel about life quite a lot.
And maybe tarot is perhaps the breadcrumbs to find the way out of the forest, perhaps.
So, yeah, and tarot is a bit of a journey, isn’t it?
I think it’s there to sort of guide us through that journey. I will shuffle them and I would love to pick this card for your next guest.
28/03/2026, 21:04 - Marie Waller:
28/03/2026, 21:05 - Finbarre: Pentacles a-go-go! The Seven there! They really want to make an appearance and my post-birthday finances are here for it, quite frankly.
28/03/2026, 21:06 - Marie Waller: 😂😂 💰💰💰
28/03/2026, 21:06 - Marie Waller: Yes they really have made a strong appearance this evening . 🤔
28/03/2026, 21:08 - Finbarre:
Marie Waller from the substack, The Ghost of a Smile.
Thank you for revealing my birthdate secrets, for reminding me quite how good Kate Bush’s Get Out of My House is, a masterpiece, no notes, and for sharing your spooky clock with the tiny Aslans on the front.
It has been a lovely hop, skip and a jump through this tarot journey.
28/03/2026, 21:09 - Marie Waller: My favourite song IS Get Out Of My House in fact 😊
28/03/2026, 21:10 - Marie Waller:
Thank you so much, Finbarre. I really enjoyed this chat. It’s been everything. It’s been great. And I wish you well with finding your own creative space too. Thank you so much for having me. It’s been a real spooky delight. Thank you. Bye bye.