Chat #12 - Treasa McCabe
"Magic comes out when people put their minds together"
Treasa is the design lead, tech lead, and lead producer at Spooky Doorway, the studio behind The Séance of Blake Manor and The Darkside Detective series. Without her, the team admits they’d probably just be making graphic novels.
04/11/2025, 13:35 - Finbarre:
Treasa McCabe of Spooky Doorway, welcome to Tarot DMs. I had the fortune of playing The Seance of Blake Manor, your fabulous computer game, over the last couple of days, and I have to say that I am terrible at it. Let me show you something.
04/11/2025, 13:36 - Finbarre:
04/11/2025, 13:36 - Treasa McCabe: Ha ha, off to a bad start
04/11/2025, 13:37 - Finbarre:
And that is just rubbing salt into the wound “You were evicted from Blake Manor, and as a result of your actions, zero of the people in the manor survived?” Ah well!
04/11/2025, 13:37 - Treasa McCabe:
I actually really love those early fail screens. You see people going “I failed”. And then they’re like, “Oh, no, everybody died. Oh, no!” I think it’s what’s happening pretty nicely for people. Also teaches people, you know, to be careful. It was there for a reason, not just there to make you feel bad.
04/11/2025, 13:39 - Treasa McCabe:
I think it’s really important in game design to teach the players what to expect and how to behave early, especially when you’re in something like an open world game. Because you can get yourself down into a lot of holes very quickly if you don’t know the rules really fast. Or you can get yourself into a hole really far down the line when you’ve invested a really long time playing the game. And then you’ll get frustrated and walk away because you didn’t understand the rules of the game. So yeah, I think we’re a little bit harsher in those opening hour or two. You see like even the time mechanic as well - we put a fairly hard deadline on things of like an hour for the first mission and then like an hour for the second mystery as well. Because we just want you to know.
After that, the whole game kind of opens up and you have day two and day three to kind of explore. Imagine you threw like 20 hours into that and then didn’t realize that your actions had consequences…. and then you’d be real cross!
04/11/2025, 13:39 - Finbarre:
As I was playing the game, I was jotting down various notes, Treasa, and a few things jumped out at me straight away. The first one being Blake Manor reminded me of a castle in Scotland, actually, on the Isle of Rum called Kinloch Castle.
And it had a very similar feel. It also had a similar feel to, there was an old shooter called House of the Dead, an arcade shooter back from the 90s where you’d stand with your buddy with a plastic gun, popping the occasional shot into a zombie, desperately trying to reload.
And as the game starts, you walk up to the House of the Dead, and there is a big fountain where one of your, I think one of your comrades called Sophie gets kidnapped by a gargoyle that swoops down and the protagonist yells “Sophie, Sophie!” as she’s whisked away into the night.
That part of the game felt very familiar. Were there particular locations that you drew or castles that you visited that you put into the game?
04/11/2025, 13:43 - Finbarre: These are all bonus questions of course, I have your first card here ready and waiting!
04/11/2025, 13:46 - Treasa McCabe:
Yeah, so actually the team, particularly the art and narrative team, went to visit a few old houses around Ireland. I think Loftus Hall was a big inspiration, especially for the layout. And there was another old house that they were allowed into and they went around and took photos and used those as references for most of the props and stuff we made for the game. They’re based on kind of old manors and old houses around Ireland, actually.
04/11/2025, 13:46 - Treasa McCabe:
So our team is like fully remote and during the development of the team, one of our devs who lives in South Africa came over to Ireland. She had a little trip previously and she was on a trip with her dad so we thought it was a really good opportunity to get the team together.
So we actually went to a haunted house here in Dundalk where I live, which is actually the same place as I am in the picture you were talking about. That’s Bellurgan House and we had a spooky sleepover where we had actually tarot readings.
So we had ogham readings and we made our own little ogham staves and we did a murder mystery and we just kind of hung out and played in jail because we never really get to see each other in person.
So, yeah, we did a spooky sleepover. I suggested a seance, but I did not get many people taking me up on that!
04/11/2025, 13:49 - Finbarre: Coincidentally in the picture we have above Blake Manor here… we have a full moon, that takes us nicely to:
04/11/2025, 13:49 - Finbarre: The Moon Month on Tarot DMs!
04/11/2025, 13:49 - Finbarre:
04/11/2025, 13:49 - Treasa McCabe:
Yeah, I know. That’s why I thought it was really coincidental that we pulled the moon card.
I actually, like I run a full moon circle. I run a women’s circle every month. And we have ours tomorrow night. So when you pulled the moon, I thought it was very nice.
And it’s that thing of things aren’t what they seem and those reflections,
That kind of reflection of a piece of art coming back at you is, it’s a really interesting place to be in when you put something out into the world, isn’t it? And start seeing those reflections.
04/11/2025, 13:50 - Treasa McCabe:
Also kind of a very vulnerable place as well because you know people see a different version of what you saw when you’re putting it together and they take their own meanings and their own interpretations and try to make connections sometimes that you made or didn’t make.
It is kind of lovely they also do things that you didn’t expect them to do which is also great. It’s lovely to see somebody interacting with something that came out of your brain hole!
04/11/2025, 13:52 - Finbarre:
The Moon card for me has always been an astonishingly powerful card because I used to have a Moon tarot card pendant that I wore. I went out on a night out… and you would have to get me really rather drunk for me to tell you all of the details of that night. It was one of the wildest nights of my life. And then in the morning I lost it.
So my question for you, looking at the Moon card. Working with supernatural themes like Dark Side Detective, how do you navigate the unconscious and the weird in game design?
04/11/2025, 13:57 - Treasa McCabe:
They’re two very different types of games. So I think we navigate it kind of differently for both.
The first game was made when myself and my husband were traveling. We had just gotten married and we, in a bit of madness, like booked a one-way ticket to Indonesia and then just kept traveling for kind of years with laptops and stuff on our back. And we spend a lot of that time, I think like getting to know each other and the weird and wonderfulness of the world.
We wrote a lot of the game there based on people we met and experiences we had. It was all very silly, but because there were no rules, you could be as strange and as silly as you wanted and also as kind of deeper, as shallow as you wanted. And so it was more of a kind of a stream of consciousness. You know, you just pour some stuff out of your head and try to shuffle the pieces around until it makes some sort of sense, you know, see what comes out of it. So let’s see what comes out of the mix, but you’re not kind of beholden to anything.
Whereas with The Seance of Blake Manor, we really wanted to stay reasonably close to Irish spirituality as possible. So most of like the historical or spiritual references in the game are based around our own experience of Irish spirituality and like the gods here and, you know, our stories and our land.
So there was slightly less interpretation and more us trying to make sense of our own narrative and the narrative of our past and our ancestors. And I guess the stories that brought us up to this point.
So yeah, it’s been a very kind of, I guess, different interaction with the supernatural in making the two games. In their essence, I guess, they’re both games about people and their connections and how they perceive the unknown.
Particularly in Blake Manor, I think it’s really interesting because it’s a lot of people from different backgrounds and from different spiritual backgrounds that have been brought to the same place for the same reason.
All kind of, I guess, drawn to that same question of pondering around mortality and like, you know, the what happens next and, you know, brings it down to the, you know, the very core idea of what is beyond. So there’s bigger overlap there in terms of what does everybody believe and how does it all boil down to the same core humanity?
04/11/2025, 14:02 - Treasa McCabe: In Ireland, I think there’s quite a strong sense and still belief in the supernatural. At least when we were growing up, there definitely was. You know, people were still very superstitious and still are.
People still don’t walk in fairy rings. We still avoid cutting down fairy trees. We still, yeah, we still very much, I think, believe. I guess, yeah, it’s kind of drawing from those stories and fears and beliefs of your childhood and as you grow and the people around you.
What it is to be Irish while sitting in the darkness as we draw into the winter and into ourselves. I think one is a little closer to home. One is more external, one’s more internal, maybe.
04/11/2025, 14:02 - Finbarre:
I had to ask, as the Seance of Blake Manor is steeped in such rich atmosphere, the sound design on it was so evocative and immersive.
The unreal part of it, for me, was the colour scheme. With the blues and the yellows and the purples, there was an uncanny luminosity to the experience. I really liked it.
I will, hopefully, finish the game soon. Instead of just annoying the hotel manager.
04/11/2025, 14:04 - Treasa McCabe:
I think there is actually an achievement to the hotel manager enough!
Yeah, no, it’s really our art director, Paul, did an amazing job. So did Clement, who did the music, and Elvis, who did the sound design. They did a fantastic job of building the atmosphere.
Yeah, I think the art style and stuff like that was based off of comic books and stuff that Paul, like Paul’s quite into comic books, he was kind of drawing on a lot of things that he did with his dad growing up because his dad was kind of quite ill at the time.
And actually the day we decided to make the game as company was at Paul’s dad’s funeral when he was talking to us about all those things that were kind of coming up for him and that he was just kind of thinking about and bringing in. And all the Hammer Horror films and stuff. So yeah, there’s something special in there for him, definitely. I think it’s a really special game to his heart.
I think between the whole team, everybody brought in something. And yeah, I think whatever you can say about it, it’s definitely a game with a lot of heart.
04/11/2025, 14:06 - Finbarre: Onto the next card. The first one was the Anchor card that all guests receive this month - I’ll now be drawing the Wild card. This can be anything. When the moment feels right, just type “stop” and I’ll stop shuffling the deck.
04/11/2025, 14:07 - Treasa McCabe: Stop
04/11/2025, 14:07 - Finbarre:
04/11/2025, 14:08 - Treasa McCabe:
It’s quite fitting I’m having a lot of nightmares recently! Yeah and that that comes with the stress of releasing or releasing a game.
I am a design and also development lead and so even as you see people talking about the design and the development and then all of the bugs are coming in and you’re just trying to make sure that everybody’s having a good time… while also trying to juggle three very small children at the at the same time and the guilt that brings and yeah it’s uh I think pretty apt.
04/11/2025, 14:09 - Treasa McCabe:
There’s also kind of an emotional crash, I think, that comes after doing everything as well. Because you pour a lot into something and, you know, you’re trying really hard to get it over the finish line. And you get it over the finish line.
And it’s kind of you get that big rush of adrenaline and then just things drop. And then the fear as well.
You know, we’re doing lots of post-release updates and stuff. You want to make sure you don’t break anything. You’re just trying to get everything working and everything going. Make sure everything’s okay. A lot of juggling.
04/11/2025, 14:10 - Finbarre:
Every time I pull a card like this I’m always so tempted to just stash it to one side and pull out The Sun or something instead. The Four of Swords of course. It’s a card of rest, recovery and the need for spiritual retreat after struggle or stress. It’s about emotional regrouping or contemplation. Sanctuary in card form. All right let me think of a question
04/11/2025, 14:11 - Finbarre:
This one is short and sweet. What does rest look like to you?
04/11/2025, 14:14 - Treasa McCabe:
Oh gosh, what does rest look like to me? Rest to me looks like, I think, not having to make decisions. I think it looks like going for walks and being in the moment with my kids and my family and not thinking about anything else. It’s hanging out with my friends. It’s playing music.
I’m in a middle-aged girl band, let’s say. We haven’t really been able to rehearse for the last while. We’ve all been really busy and sick and doing stuff. The idea of getting back and being able to be entirely immersed in something where you have to be focused on playing your instrument and stuff.
And just in that flow state, that’s incredibly restful for me, actually. And something that I’m really missing. Really missing getting back to the gym, actually. Again, I had to step away from that for a while and being able to get back in and just move my body.
That’s what I think rest looks like for me to stand on my own two feet and be in the zone with myself and have space to think about what I want rather than what is needed.
04/11/2025, 14:17 - Finbarre:
The idea of a retreat sounds utterly lovely and very well deserved after the enormity of the project you’ve been involved in. We’re up to the final card.
This one has been gifted to you by the artist Frank Duffy, and it’s the card of Judgment.
04/11/2025, 14:17 - Finbarre:
04/11/2025, 14:18 - Finbarre: How are you feeling about that one Treasa?
04/11/2025, 14:19 - Treasa McCabe:
Again very seriously when you’ve just put something out in the world and you’ve worked really hard on it right and it’s… putting it out there for criticism but also trying to you know, with the rewards of all of that energy that you’ve poured into something.
I said before kind of quite a vulnerable time as well and there’s a lot of, you know, we sit there and you look at what everyone has to say about the thing that you poured everything into the last few years you have to decide what to do with that.
It’s also like you know people are asking to talk to us and so it becomes kind of even away from the art and kind of even towards the artist as well where it’s it’s not just the thing it’s it’s actually you as well, so yeah it’s it’s an odd time, but it’s definitely a fairly apt time for the Judgment card I think! It’s also a point where you know we finished up and we have to kind of make those decisions about what’s next you know. I think when you come out of something that’s kind of big and all-consuming you look back and you have to have a bit of a retrospective with yourself on whether that’s something you want to do again or how you would do it differently or what’s important now and what’s the next step I’m going to make.
So yeah, I mean, a lot of these cards could probably be perceived as negative but actually they’re incredibly fitting for the moment I sit in right now.
04/11/2025, 14:22 - Finbarre:
I find that many cards in the tarot are hard, but fair. Judgment’s one of them, the idea of not dwelling in sentimentality, the call for honest reflection, forgiveness for yourself, and to shed what no longer serves, that you’re being summoned to your own truth.
04/11/2025, 14:22 - Treasa McCabe:
It’s also that point in The Moon as well, right?
It’s the point of highest illumination where you can see what’s what. It’s that point between now and the new moon of just letting go. Letting go of anything that doesn’t serve. So we sit at a perfectly pivotal point for this.
04/11/2025, 14:23 - Finbarre:
My last question to you is, after the completion of The Seance of Blake Manor, what do you now see in a different light?
04/11/2025, 14:24 - Treasa McCabe:
Myself, I think, probably. It’s the time where I have stepped into a design role more than before, and I didn’t feel very confident or competent, and kind of made a lot of decisions that were probably quite wild during the development of the game.
I was very nervous about putting that out, or whether I’d made the right decisions or the wrong decisions, and I kind of followed my gut on a lot of things.
But yeah, I was very, very nervous about whether following that was the correct route.
Since the game has come out, it’s had a lot of really positive feedback, and it’s made me, I think, more confident in myself as a designer and feeling like I can step into the design role and trust myself a little bit more. So yeah, I guess myself.
04/11/2025, 14:27 - Treasa McCabe:
It’s also made me marvel at the wonders of people.
When lots of people put their minds together and their brains together and try to create a kind of collective experience for other people to move through, what kind of magic comes out?
It’s on that, like trusting the people around you and trusting the process.
Yeah, I think it’s a kind of renewed trust in people and the wonderful people you surround yourself with is all, you know.
04/11/2025, 14:27 - Finbarre:
Damn right, after a rip-roaring success, you deserved to put you feet up. I did spot in The Guardian that The Seance of Blake Manor has got five stars. And the only reason that I discovered the game, I have to say, is I was playing a detective game called “This Bed We Made” and I enjoyed it so much that I went straight onto Google, looked up the best detective games coming out this year. Yours was top of the list, and here we are.
04/11/2025, 14:29 - Treasa McCabe:
Wow, I didn’t know that. That’s fantastic to hear. I haven’t played This Bed We Made.
In fact, you know, I really haven’t played that many games at all in the last few years because I was busy having babies and making games and all of those things.
I think the last game I played and still haven’t finished was Lorelei and the Laser Eyes, which was lovely.
I remember reading a review of Lorelei and the Laser Eyes and thinking “Oh gosh, like, you know, I’d love to have a review like the one posted about this game”
Just recently we were compared to it and also compared to like a load of other games that I really, really admire and that I loved playing myself. That’s been pretty, pretty wild and pretty amazing, actually, pretty lovely.
Thank you so much for playing! I really hope you have a good time playing. And that, you know, you and everybody else doesn’t die a horrible death at a seance.
04/11/2025, 14:30 - Finbarre: You mentioned you have a deck of cards ready for the next guest. Could you draw one for them and I’ll let them know it is from you. Take a snap of it for me to pass on.
04/11/2025, 14:31 - Treasa McCabe: So it came up reversed
04/11/2025, 14:31 - Treasa McCabe: Do you want me to leave it reversed or flip it upright?
04/11/2025, 14:31 - Finbarre: Oh no, it want to be upside-down that’s the way it must be!
04/11/2025, 14:32 - Treasa McCabe:
04/11/2025, 14:32 - Treasa McCabe: 8 of wands/staves
04/11/2025, 14:33 - Finbarre:
Oh, that’s going to be an interesting one. The whole idea of stalled momentum or misunderstood communication.
Treasa McCabe, thank you so much for being on Tarot DMs. It has been wonderful learning more about your game and it’s been wonderful catching up with you this afternoon.
04/11/2025, 14:33 - Treasa McCabe:
Thanks very much, Finbarre. It was lovely.